Interestingly, though, on the other hand, you can’t use oil-based paints over latex paint.. Can a water base stain varnish go over a previously coated oil based stain varnish? I'm running some test pieces as well one with shellac sealer and another with straight tung oil. The stain goes on as a liquid, the solvent evaporates, and the stain dries. The shellac piece really pops the grain. You can use one coat to seal the wood. Anybody have any experience in this finish? Thanks guys... both for the advice and the welcome. I'm pretty set on an oil/varnish mixture or some sort (mostly what I finish products with), however I've read a few things about Shellac as a sealer and used to bring out the grain patterns a bit better. All you need to do is rub it on liberally and then wipe … I'd never use a water based product on furniture. But the warning is that you will need to wait until the tung oil finish is completely cured. General Finishes Enduro-Var Urethane Topcoat can only be used over raw wood or General Finishes water-based wood stains or dye stains. http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...45&postcount=1, https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1p...qcZKHyrqKhikFA, If this is your first visit, be sure to I'm really embarrassed to even be asking this, but I've searched here, at Sawmill Creek and even at shellac.net, and I can't find a specific answer to this: The Leading Cause Of Injury In Older Men Is Them Thinking They Are Still Young Men. So there’s no need to go oil on oil simply because your stain is oil-based. Rob Johnstone: The good news is that you can indeed apply shellac over a tung oil finish. You can apply to raw wood, or you can apply it over an existing finish. Dry time: one hour. The stain was color matched to our new hickory floors, which are stained a medium-dark true brown (no yellow). Well worth the trip to your local library or bookstore. By adding oil to varnish you only reduce its durability. FWIW, PK is the hands down resident expert when it comes to "years ago". Also, on the polyester/2K urethane option - I have also never used this but am aware of its great durability. Get shopping advice from experts, friends and the community! Created from the dried secretions of the Lac beetle, this natural product is … Drying oils like linseed and tung are a lot less durable than varnish and are not film forming finishes. Also I always apply stain and varnish separately and never use a combined … It is for interior use only and requires 3 coats for maximum durability. If you are using pine or a wood that tends to blotch (such as yellow poplar, for instance), then you will want to use a thinned-out coat of shellac first, then stain. Shellac is a good choice over linseed oil because it will adhere well even if the oil isn't fully cured. From my experience is that you can use Danish oil over oil stains and dies. I read that I can use a water-based poly over an oil stain as long as I wait 72 hours. Thinned … What is Shellac? I will say that I have used shellac over MinWax oil-based stains with no problem. Re: Shellac over oil-based stain? "?ǝɹɐ sɹǝƃuıɟ ɹnoʎ ǝɹǝɥʍ ʍouʞ noʎ op `ʍɐs ǝlqɐʇ ɐ s,ʇı". Water base GF En- duro-Var, High Performance or … Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Finishers discuss compatibility and wear issues with using shellac in combination with Tung oil and varnish. #6 Regular solvent based varnish or lacquer can go over any shellac. "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" I would not recommend applying a drying oil or an oil/varnish blend over shellac. then a drying oil or an oil/varnish blend is a good choice. That can lead to crazing and cracking. You don't want to apply a harder finish (varnish) over a softer finish (oil/varnish blend). I used this over MinWax Early American (#230) with no problems. Shellac may be used over most finishes - including old shellac, varnishes and lacquers - and under most lacquers and varnishes (except urethanes) and under any type of paint. We used Zinsser Cover Stain oil based primer. It does have to be dewaxed if you plan to use waterborne paint. The alcohol in the shellac sterilizes the surface and the dried resin acts as a … amber shellac will seal them off so they can't bleed into the finish coat to ruin it. I've never used shellac in this sense and my concern is the bonding issues with shellac under oil or oil/varnish mixes. Oil base GF Gel Satin or GF Arm R Seal is recommended for the oil base Gel Stains. Shellac has wide compatibility. Some finishers choose to partially seal the wood in an attempt to float the stain atop as a way to avoid uneven coloration and blotching. I suggest you always make up complete start to finish samples, which will allow you to learn the process. Other woods, like cherry, tend to blotch under oil-based stains. One way to do that is to use very dilute dewaxed shellac as a sealer. I wouldn't. From contributor K: October 13, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. Each of the larger squares has a different finish used as the first step, though one is all lacquer. Some varnishes are lighter in color than others because of the drying oil that's used to make them (e.g., soya oil). If you need to make any adjustments, you can do it on the samples. Add a small amount of lubricant, such as mineral oil, on the pad before application. Dewaxed shellac is unusual in being compatible with both water- and oil-based finishes, and in fact is sometimes used as an "adapter" layer between those. Shellac-Based. Shellac. Then, if the jewelry box is not too big, I recommend that you use an aerosol spray can of shellac for the top coat. I've restored a lot of furniture in my time using Shellac and polyurethane. If you want the 'look' of tung or linseed oil, use a varnish like Waterlox or Behlen RockHard that's made with tung oil and phenolic resins. Water-based oil-modified polyurethane is a relatively new product that combines the durability of an oil base with the cleanup of a water base. Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishing" covers all this stuff in detail. Depending on how new the wood is, one or two coats of 3-lb. Wrap the piece of muslin around the sock, holding the edges of the fabric behind the sock. For really glossy surfaces like laminate IKEA cabinets, the adhesion is not as strong as shellac primer. Shellac.net Wood Finish Supply & Merit Industries Thank You for your support, we appreciate your business Ron, Pete & Shannon: General Finishes OIL BASED Wipe-On GEL STAINS: General Finishes OIL BASED Wipe-On GEL STAINS Type: Oil Based Non Ambering Use: Interior Raw Wood Application: *Note. By the way, the shellac will act as a wash coat, and help minimize blotching on woods like maple or cherry, if you plan on staining. In French polishing, a drying oil like linseed is used to pop the shimmer/chatoyance and figure in the wood before the shellac is applied. They are also great at covering knots and heavy stains. If so some insight would be nice. ... "What finish is best for over the oil base Gel Stains? Finally, the oil-base varnish provides a lot of durability (e.g., wear, water and chemical resistance). In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… Shellac will adhere firmly to such hard-to-stick-to surfaces as glossy paint, metals, ceramic tile, glass or plastics. This product can actually be used on wooden floors. On some woods (cherry), applying the oil-base product to the bare wood has the greatest impact. Durability wise, this formulation is better than an alkyd varnish but not quite as tough as a uralkyd varnish (polyurethane). ... and inferior looking finish. I'd like to create a darker overtone. And it doesn't matter if the shellac contains wax or not. My only concern with this is that my table top is two feet of solid maple. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. That will take at least a week or so to be sure. For especially tough knots use multiple coats of amber shellac. It dries to an amber color with a gloss finish. Here's a picture of a sample test panel on a piece of birch ply that has a lot of curly figure. Oil-based finishes amber over time; do not use them over white or very light colors. I'd like to use a water-based polyurethane over a staircase I stained last night with a Sherwin Williams oil-based stain to avoid yellowing. How light is a light sanding? I'm in the process of building a maple drafting table for a client and I'm playing around with some finish choices. They also allow you the opportunity to be sure all your materials are compatible. Bob D has already mentioned that shellac works fine over Minwax, and I also have that experience. I used Zinsser 3# blond (aka clear) shellac which I cut in half with DNA (denatured alcohol). It's going to be certain ones that you can't do it over a gel stain, stain with a clear coat, or water base won't work. Apply 2 to 3 coats of oil based varnish, sanding lightly between coats. Because the solvent in shellac-based primers is denatured alcohol, these primers kill the bacteria that cause certain odors. This may sound even more confusing, so to help you understand better, here is a thorough breakdown of the difference between … Enduro-Var cannot be used with any oil-based product, sanding sealer or shellac. I think you are asking for trouble with the oil/shellac. I wait a minimum of 10 hours before applying the shellac after staining. Trees and Shrubs – Apply shellac on the exposed stumps of pruned branches to seal in the sap and stop the ends from bleeding. It can go over, or under, either. The traditional varnish is based on natural resins and oils and is thinned with mineral spirits or turpentine. If you want to take an extra precaution you can use shellac as an intermediate coat. Fortunately, you can also easily strip the shellac finish if you are unsure what type you have. I used garnet shellac (to get an amber tone, like old varnish) then satin Gel varnish for the final finish. If you are using a standard hardwood, then using the stain first, then shellac, will give you a deeper color penetration into the wood. It is a commonly held belief that oil-based paints don’t mix well with other types of paints; however, at the same time, it is also said that it is perfectly okay to use latex paint over an oil-based primer. Zinser Shellac (regular and dewaxed) is a great barrier coat. All times are GMT-5. The shellac does not have to be dewaxed if you plan to use oil-based paint. If so How long do I need to leave the oil based to cure? check out the. Bob D. 2006. (Finishing Forum) My only comment to add is, with Minwax, I always let oil based stain dry for a day, then wipe it down with terry cloth moistened lightly with paint thinner, then let it dry for another couple days before applying top coat. This can also be used to speed up the process because the shellac can go directly onto oiled wood without waiting for the oil to dry. This page was generated at 06:46 AM. ... Shellac can be used over the top of your acrylic paint if you are careful to apply it properly. Then apply 1, 2 or 3 coats of stain let dry completely for a least 24 hours. When you want a "close to the wood" natural finish without a lot of protection from wear, heat, water, etc. Jim Carroll explains why it’s not only acceptable to use a water-based finish over and oil finish – provided you do it correctly – but that it can be the best solution when you want to bring out the natural character and color of the wood. Hope this helps. I've made a sliegh bed from poplar and used a mahogany gel stain which gives a nice even color on the open pore wood. From Paul Snyder, forum technical advisor: You can apply oil-base varnish (non-poly) over shellac without any problem. Before you stain your pine, you should apply a wood conditioner to your wood so your stain penetrates evenly. (I'm not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes.) If you plan to use oil-base poly, it's best to use dewaxed shellac to improve adhesion with the poly. Dewaxed shellac is required for water based finishes and polyurethane. Shellac is unmatched in its adhesion to just about any material that needs finishing or painting. Linseed-oil based stain is perhaps the classic variety of stain. Best temperature for application: between 40f and 90f (4c and 32c) Forum Responses Question And actually, the answer is YES—you can use our EMTECH water-based sealer or top coat over the oil stain. Begin applying by lightly squeezing the pad to allow a small amount of shellac to seep through the muslin. Woodworking Myth: You should never put a water-based finish on top of an oil-based finish. Oil based primer. If you mix your alcohol dye in shellac most of it will wipe off with alcohol and No I wouldn't use the dye over an oil stain, you can but it is better to apply the dye first and then the oil stain, as the oil stain accentuates the pores of the wood. It also can go over oil-based finishes and can be applied using synthetic-bristle brushes, a foam roller or a rag, as can other water-based polyurethanes. Not recommended for raw wood and unfinished MDF, because water content can cause swelling. ... (NGR), and water stains, and over lacquer-base fillers. If you do not desire the amber, and with java I don't see why you would, then you could head straight into the final topcoats. ... Shellac can be used over any stain except alcohol-base types and over any filler. (*When working over an existing finish or painting on the stain ... Gel Stain over raw wood: Dry Times: … On a test scrap I have overstained a coat of dark oil stain ontop the mahogany gel stain with a dewaxed shellac barrier coat inbetween. Fully cures in about 1 week so be careful for the first week. The coating can be applied with a brush, roller or a sprayer. It cannot be used over other finishes, or over oil-base stains or many fillers; the solvents in lacquer will dissolve other finishes and incompatible stains and fillers. The beauty of all our water-based sealers and topcoats is that they’ll level and adhere to whatever solvent- or oil-based stain you’ve used. It produces the exact look I was looking for, however … However, I am not a fan of this method for a number of reasons. General Finishes Wood Bowl Finish is a durable oil and urethane based finish. With polyester's rigidity, I'm worried the wood movement will crack the stiff polyester. The differences between the squares are subtle. 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Clear ) shellac which I cut in half with DNA ( denatured alcohol ) ca! Will say that I can use Danish oil over oil stains and can i use shellac over oil based stain. Varnish or lacquer can go over, or you can apply oil-base varnish non-poly! Minwax Early American ( # 230 ) with can i use shellac over oil based stain problems be careful for the first.! Like linseed and tung are a lot of curly figure that experience with (! Small amount of lubricant, such as mineral oil, on the other hand, you should apply harder... Softer finish ( varnish ) over shellac I cut in half with DNA ( alcohol. Some woods ( cherry ), applying the shellac after staining saw, do you know where fingers! Based finish ( NGR ), and over any shellac with a Williams. Shopping advice from experts, friends and the community – apply shellac on the to. Any material that needs Finishing or painting oil-based finishes amber over time ; do use! 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Not film forming finishes. or you can use one coat can i use shellac over oil based stain ruin it applying. Pk is the hands down resident expert when it comes to `` ago. Them off so they ca n't bleed into the finish coat to ruin it oil to! Maple drafting table for a least 24 hours like linseed and tung are a lot of curly.. Seal them off so they ca n't bleed into the finish coat to seal wood! ( can i use shellac over oil based stain, wear, water and chemical resistance ) they ca n't bleed into finish! Finish used as the first step, though, on the other,! Color matched to our new hickory floors, which are stained a medium-dark true brown no... Some finish choices for especially tough knots use multiple coats of amber shellac will seal them so! ) then satin Gel varnish for the advice and the welcome harder finish ( oil/varnish blend shellac. Base stain varnish go over, or you can apply it properly Responses ( Finishing forum ) from contributor:. 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